#7. A Conversation with Jessica Rae Gordon

JA: So Jessica; after numerous awards, scholarships, publications, exhibits, and successful work in television animation, freelance illustration, and design- what was it that originally inspired you to become an artist?

JG: Well, I've always really wanted to be an artist. Specifically, I wanted to "work for Walt Disney" ever since I was in kindergarten. That's not exactly my dream anymore, I have new ones; but that one really drove me all through elementary school, junior, and senior high.

JA: Your sister, Kristy Gordon, has also gone on to a lot of success and acclaim as an artist. Was there much competition while growing up over who could create the best drawing or painting?

JG: Yes! Mom still tells us how we demanded that she choose which one did the better drawing, way back when we were kids. We would promise her that our feelings wouldn't be hurt no matter which she chose. It's pretty tough competing with Kristy though, so I avoid the competition now. Good thing our styles are now pretty hard to compare.

JA: Tell me about your two years spent at Algonquin College studying Television Animation.

JG: Well, I don't think animation really clicked with me. Now I'm afraid I've developed a block where animation is concerned. I'm currently in the early stages of developing an animated short with my friend and composer, Alexis Marsh, and I think I'm having stage fright. Algonquin College has some very talented animation teachers. It was a good experience for me, however, I generally felt that two years is really just too short of a time to properly learn animation.

JA: After receiving a diploma with honors, you went to work on two animated television series, one being The Ripping Friends; what was the other?

JG: The other was The Untalkative Bunny dreamt up by Graham Falk. I did in-betweening on the first season. I'm very proud being a part of this show, whenever I happen to mention I worked on this to someone that was a fan, they think I am very impressive. I pretty much count on this to get dates.

JA: What was it like working on Ripping Friends, and did you get to know John Kricfalusi during that time on the series?

JG: Well, I am pretty shy; it takes me quite a while to get to know people, but John K. is quite a personality! When I was working on the show it was directly through him, not Fun Bag. I would visit him from time to time at his hotel room, but it was really my sister who got to know him much more than me.

JA: You also worked on an animated commercial, tell me about that project.

JG: I worked at Tandem Films in London, England in 2002. During the year I lived in Cambridge and worked on and off whenever they needed me; I was really just in charge of compositing, but still! The commercials I worked on were Sterident, some kind of denture cleaner, and Expedia. I also worked on their in-house short, Little Things. Everyone there was very friendly and welcoming.

JA: You went on to attend Sheridan College, where you received your Bachelor's Degree with honors from Illustration; tell me about your experiences in that program, and what you feel might be the most important lesson you have learned that you would want aspiring artists to know.

JG: It was a very eye-opening experience to learn about the wide range in mediums and techniques of application that one can use! From an animation background, I was pretty reluctant to be messy, spontaneous, and use multimedia! I got over that during my training at Sheridan and my work is a bit more instinctual. I've always had a near inappropriate fetish when it comes to paper and stationary, but for some reason it just didn't occur to me to make collage art until the end of the third year.

JA: Your illustrations and designs are brilliant, boasting with humor and imagination; what is the ultimate goal you have set for yourself as an artist?

JG: Well thank you! Presently, my ultimate goal is to illustrate a series of children's books in my own style. I'd also like to have a solo show at Magic Pony, a very cute gallery in Toronto, complete my animated short that I mentioned before with Alexis Marsh, and get more freelance magazine illustration work.

JA: What were some of your favorite animated shorts or features growing up?

JG: Well, let me see...I'm pretty sure I can recite every word of Disney's Cinderella, The Little Mermaid, and The Lion King; but aside from Disney movies, I really loved The Last Unicorn, Get a Job, The Big Snit, and a lot of The National Film Board shorts.

JA: How would you define the personality of your work to me with one word?

JG: Detail.

#6. A Conversation with Kristy Gordon: Part II

JA: You recently posted background painting instructions that were created for other painters to follow your keys; obviously Mary Blair was a strong influence on your background work with Spumco, but what BGs from other features or shorts were either an influence or perhaps pieces you studied?

KG: Yeah, Mary Blair was my life! I even watched Disney's Johnny Appleseed during most of my lunch breaks; even though she only designed the original backgrounds, and I just loved it so much! There really was no other person, just everything! I was constantly surrounded by amazing art, and had Johnny's highly discerning eye there to point out all of the cool stuff. We had so many Golden Books, they were definitely the other main resource. Also Mel Crawford, magazines from the fifties, Sokol, Hanna Barbera, and even Samurai Jack! Yeah, I had a couple of print-outs of Samurai Jack BGs; like a really cool one where the rain was coming down all diagonally and the colours were pretty grey. It was done by Bill Wray! Tin Pan Alley Cats is one old animation which I remember specifically referencing for a walking sequence shot in Ren Seeks Help. I was also looking things up on Google Images and making reference pages; like the one I made for one of our BG painters living in Montreal, Simon Dupuis. It was for the pan up in the fridge in Altruists. I think the ham was from one of Johnny's old magazines, and the rest was stuff I found on the internet.
JA: What is it about these backgrounds that stand out as being unique, and in what ways do you feel they could have been improved?

KG: They just seemed so confident and stylized! Just like Johnny said they should be, each brushstroke seemed to be done with flair! They had good, often muted, colours; and interesting textures.

I guess one thing that I noticed is that not too many BG painters these days were using the softer techniques, like they would in older illustrations. I forget which Golden Books Johnny had me copy for training, but they were of soft and furry animals, and also trees painted with watercolours. When I started doing the BG paintings for the show, I tried to achieve some of those softer techniques.

JA: Let's talk about your palette; what changes did you begin to notice after being influenced by Juan Martinez to start using black for the first time?

KG: My palette became a lot more limited after working with Juan. I took off many of the greens and blues, sometimes even all of them. He used colours that I had never tried before; like English Red, Persian Red, and Yellow Ochre Pale. Using those colours as the basis of my flesh tones, instead of Burnt Sienna, really helped tone down my previously over-saturated colours. He also introduced me to the idea of using black in a painting, something I almost never did. It is amazing how when you mix black with some white, it creates a colour much like blue that works very nicely in cool flesh tones. You could even add a little Yellow Ochre to make it greenish.

JA: Your blues, greens, and Burnt Sienna were all removed from your palette while in his workshops; seeing as how they have returned, what do you feel was missing from your work in the absence of these colours?

KG: Well, I think that was a necessary change at the time to help get my colours under control, but now I'm wanting to achieve more transparent shadows and things. The red oxides, English Red and Persian Red, are really quite opaque, so now I've added Burnt Sienna back onto my palette. I'm mixing up Burnt Sienna with Ultramarine Blue for the shadows quite a bit, as well as things like Alizarin Permanent and Sap Green. All of these colours are pretty transparent, and compliment each other to tone them down, without it getting muddy or too opaque. I'll still mix some black in there sometimes too, though. I'll use colours like Cobalt Turquoise or Cerulean Blue too; because I like to get some nice, clean cools into my shadows. I definitely use the blues and greens differently, and more sparingly, than I would before.

JA: You've mentioned Jeremy Lipking's "magic" mixture of Ultramarine, Titanium white, and Alizarin Permanent, which mixes a light blue and slight purple; your phobia of purple relates to the "old man" syndrome of artists trying to bring life into their later work with it's overuse, and also eighties animation. Have you experimented with variations of the colour, or are you trying to avoid it at all costs?

KG: Yeah, Jeremy Lipking's "magic" mixture is really so great. It helps keep all of the colours related, because I find myself mixing a small amount into many of the colours in my paintings. I also saw Yuqi Wang using Egyptian Violet, which is pretty much the most purplest of purples, with beautiful results. I actually have that purple on my palette presently! Amazing as it is, given my purple phobia, I don't quite use it the way Yuqi does. It's only ever made an appearance in it's greyest form in my work so far, so who knows? Maybe as I get older.

JA: You worked with various cartoon studios before arriving at Spumco, such as Nelvana and Dynomight; what did you learn at these studios that you were able to apply in your later work? Also, tell me about Graham Falk.

KG: Not to learn how to draw from crappy studio shows. Too many people pick up terrible drawing techniques and habits from the most generic television shows, allowing it to inform their own personal style!
The Untalkative Bunny was a show that I worked on though, which was created by Graham Falk, who really does have such a cute and neat style. The problem was that nobody understood his style, and actually thought that the "flat" style of the Bunny was basically equivalent to "draw as shitty as you can!" This was before any of the "flat" style had caught on at all in Canada. But yeah, Graham's drawings are so awesome, and the Bunny is super funny! Everyone should go to his website and check out his drawings and comics.

JA: Explain the O-Grant that you recently applied for; and what can students reading this right now do to help?

KG: It’s for students who have made a difference in their communities in some way. My application is centered on the volunteer teaching and mentoring and stuff that I have been doing for other artists. Anyone in the whole world can register to leave feedback, and the amount of feedback is taken into consideration when they choose the winners! Also, Canadian students can even vote on my video!

#5. A Conversation with Nick Cross

JA: Let's go back to 1996, tell me about your first job working in animation with the Ottawa studio Dynomight Cartoons; how did that job come about, and what kind of work were you doing there?

NC: My college friend Troy Little had moved to Ottawa with his future wife, Carol, because she was going to attend a university here. I was living in Mississauga at the time, which is basically a suburb of Toronto. He managed to find work at Dynomight because they were looking for artists with an illustration background for a project they were about to start. They asked him if he knew any other people looking for work, and he called me up. I was working a dead-end job at the time and was pretty bummed out about my life, so when he called and asked if I wanted to work at an animation studio, I didn't even have to think twice. I moved to Ottawa a couple of weeks later and I've been here ever since. I often think about how lucky I was that Dynomight took such a chance hiring me, I doubt I ever would have been hired at an animation studio if it wasn't for that. Who knows what I would be doing now; I owe them a lot!

JA: What eventually led to your arrival at Spumco?

NC: In 2001, John Kricfalusi was doing a series called The Ripping Friends that was being produced at a couple of studios in Canada. About halfway through the production, John came to Ottawa to oversee that project because the studio was having a really hard time giving him what he wanted. Kristy Gordon and I showed him our portfolios and got hired on. I was doing inking of the character models, which I found really challenging. I learned a lot doing that! Shortly after Ripping Friends ended, John made a deal to make a bunch of new Ren & Stimpy episodes; so he opened a studio in Ottawa and offered me a job. Somehow I convinced him to let me do storyboards for it, and before I knew it, I was promoted to an Art Director position. In my case, this meant that I did a whole bunch of different jobs: storyboards, layouts, background designs, and paintings...I was pretty busy!

JA: You've said that you were inspired by cartoons from the thirties, notably the Fleischers and Ub Iwerks; with all of the tired animation going on in the industry at that time, how did it feel to be working in such a creative and challenging atmosphere under the direction of someone like John K.?

NC: Despite the fact that animation is one of the most creative art forms in the world, the industry is pretty limiting. It is overwhelmingly restrictive, so it was great to work for someone like John. Despite the fact that he is extremely demanding of his artists, he is also very open to them experimenting and bringing something of their own to the project. That's the thing that I really like about cartoons from the thirties; you can really see that the artists at the time were constantly experimenting and inventing new ideas. Even when the results are not the greatest, they are still interesting to watch.

JA: Let's focus on Ren & Stimpy: Adult Party Cartoon for a moment; particularly on an episode that was never produced, Life Sucks. Was it your idea to draw The Children's Crusade in the style of Mary Blair's Golden Books?

NC: No. I wish I could take credit for that, but it was John's idea. I think he just said it in an offhanded kind of way while he was going over the story with me. I loved the idea, so I immersed myself with Mary Blair drawings and really worked hard to get a handle on her style.

JA: John said that many of the people who worked on that episode figured it would be the best Ren & Stimpy story ever written; why, in that case, was it never produced?

NC: It had the potential to be really amazing because of it's scope, which was also it's downfall. It just took too long to get finished, and we didn't have the time or money. It got pushed to the sidelines so that we could concentrate on getting other shows done, and the budget and schedule ran out before we got a chance to complete it. It's a shame, because that was my favorite episode too.

JA: You also worked with John K. on Classico, the Tenacious D video, and were in charge of background design and color styling; what was that experience like, and were there any challenges retaining all of the crude gags that were created?

NC: Well, I just did backgrounds on that, so the gags weren't really my department. It wasn't much different than normally doing BGs for John, which is an experience that can be a real struggle sometimes. But I didn't struggle alone, there were a few other artists who also did paintings for that video: Marlo Meekins, Rex Hackelberg, and Jay Li. Each of them brought some unique stuff to the final look of the cartoon.

JA: Let's talk about The Waif of Persephone, a project you worked on for five years; what was the initial response to your film at it's multiple screenings, and what are your thoughts on the finished project in comparison to your original vision?

NC: Overall, I'm happy with the way the film turned out. It's hard to gauge the reaction it has gotten from festivals, because I'm not really able to go to all of them. I do know that I got a really good reaction from it's screening at the Ottawa Animation Festival, since I was there. It also won an award for "Best Canadian Animation" at the Okanagan Film Festival, so that was pretty cool too.

JA: Tell me about your next film, Yellow Cake, and what progress you have left to make before it is complete.

NC: The film is my take on the current wave of reactionary politics at work in the world now. Only in the modern world could folks turn a simple and happy thing like cake into an ominous reason to kill thousands of people, so I'm doing a happy animated cartoon about it. Right now I'm just wrapping up animation, which just leaves the background painting, and then I'm done. Hopefully, it will all be finished by early 2009.

JA: What changes would you like to see made in the animation world right now, and what progress is being made that you feel reflects what you would like to see happen?

NC: I've been lucky to have worked for a lot of great directors over the past few years: Riccardo Durante, Mark Ackland, Sean Scott, and John Kricfalusi. I believe that when a director is really diligent they can fight the system just enough to make whatever it is they are doing turn out pretty good. I guess the main change that I would want to see is more trust being placed into the creative side of the production, and more room being given for experimentation.

JA: If you had to promote your style with one word, what would it be?

NC: I don't know, I don't really believe in style. So maybe it would be "astylistic"?

#4. A Conversation with Kristy Gordon

JA: Let's start this look at your work with one of your first professional positions, Art Director of Ren & Stimpy: Adult Party Cartoon. How did this job come about, and what were your first interactions with series creator John Kricfalusi like?

KG: Well, it was the night of my graduation from animation at Algonquin College, and we had an open-house. During the night, I heard that John K. was there looking at portfolios! I was pretty excited, but didn't know exactly what he looked like. I even eagerly asked someone else from a different studio here in town who was looking at my portfolio if he was John K., and he was pretty confused. But alas, Johnny never made it to my portfolio and left kinda early. I was so disappointed! I heard through the grapevine that he was drinking at a local bar that night, so Nick Cross (also Art Director) and I drove to meet him! This time I got it right and introduced myself to the right guy. So there we were, drinking together, and he asked me to draw a character on a napkin! Horror! I was mostly a layout artist, and never felt totally comfortable drawing characters from animation. I had just finished this film in school, so I drew this totally pathetic drawing of my little girl character. Oh, thank the sweet lord that I don't still have that drawing today to post for everyone now. Oh yeah, for some reason I didn't even have my portfolio there with me that night! Fortunately, when I finally did get him a copy of the 'ol portfolio, he liked the layouts! Pretty soon he had me doing layouts and inking for The Ripping Friends. Later, when I heard that he was doing a new Ren & Stimpy series, I asked him if I could paint the backgrounds for it, to which he responded that I "would probably need a little more practice before doing that". He got me to do a "test", to just choose some Mary Blair paintings to copy and show to him. I did, and he said he pretty much couldn't tell any difference between mine and the originals, and I was hired. One thing led to another, and I started to get the hang of doing BGs for Spumco, although it was never easy! I was made BG Painting Supervisor, which I later found out actually means Art Director. I remember seeing the credits on Stimpy's Pregnant that said I was Art Director and thought it was some sort of weird, but highly flattering, mistake.

JA: You recently wrote that you developed a phobia of purple while at Spumco, due to John's agony of the cartoons from the eighties that used the same colours- pink, purple, and green- referring to them as "video-box colours". Tell me about the process you went through of finding the tone to match what John wanted.

KG: Oh, purple! You know it exactly; it's the purple, pink, and green that must be avoided in cartoons, and with that I agree. Yeah, the "process" I went through basically started with me first being told by Johnny to not use any primary colours, so I thought, "Great, now I get it. It's all about the secondary colours!". But no, I soon found out that they were all out too! I was pretty darn confused about things. I kept going through the colours in my mind, trying to think about which ones weren't primary or secondary. Isn't that all of them? I tried to remember, "isn't there a category called tertiary colours?" I finally discovered that pretty much all of the colours were acceptable, as long as they were generally pretty greyed down.

JA: How did you become involved in the voice work for the characters on Ren & Stimpy?

KG: That was really just because I knew Johnny. I hung out with him, worked with him, got drunk with him; I guess he heard my voice at some point and liked it. Doing voices is fun!

JA: John K. refers back to your work saying that you are "an incredible artist who is interested in many different aspects of art, a natural master of technique and detail. She just oozes with style and artistic elegance." Where did you draw inspiration from as a BG designer?

KG: Mary Blair was big, big, big! So were some really cool film noirs that Johnny brought in on laserdisc. He had the tech guy take the screen captures off for me. I had set my computer to a slide show of them when I was working on the Ren Seeks Help backgrounds for Mr. Horse's office. Johnny would also get us to go through magazines, like House & Home, and tear out any of the ones that had colours we liked and study why they worked. Then he would have us use the colours from the magazines, but done in the styles and techniques of Golden Books! Yeah, there were so many Golden Books, and he was always getting me to organize them. Sometimes he wouldn't even look at my BGs if the shelf wasn't organized. Rootie Kazootie was also big! A lot of Hanna Barbera for sure, too! He even had a couple binders made up of Hanna Barbera paintings, with instructions and analysis written up! I always wondered who put those together, and wanted to photocopy them, but never did.

JA: Let's go further back to what first inspired you to start creating art, what were your earliest influences?

KG: I actually started painting with acrylic on canvas when I was about fourteen. My mom was taking some painting classes and had learned how to stretch canvases, so I was stretching my own canvases too! She also had a lot of cool art books, like one by Group of Seven and Tom Thompson, a popular painting group here in Canada, and Alex Colville. I guess my mom likes a lot of Canadian artists! We also took out Art News magazines from the library in town, which I loved. I would try to do paintings of my own subjects, but in the styles and colours I saw in the magazines. Unfortunately, I lost that magazine, so my mom kinda had to pay the fine at the library for it. I later found it, and actually still have it today! I remember especially liking the German Expressionist painter, Ernst Kirschner.

JA: Your designs at Spumco were brilliant, not to mention very funny. John even commented on one of your BGs saying, "has anyone ever treated teats so reverently as our little genius Kristy has done for you?". How was the transition from working as Art Director at Spumco to teaching assistant for Yuqi Wang?

KG: Now, isn't that just so sweet of him? Yeah, it seems like Nick Cross was drawing such hilarious backgrounds, like that "cow pan", that I really didn't have to do anything to make them funny. I would just paint them kinda soft with FW inks.

While I was at Spumco, I was also painting landscapes for a couple of galleries here in Ottawa, and I had the sweet deal of them actually buying everything that I painted! That's pretty rare in the art world. Normally, paintings are put on consignment, and you really want that piece to sell, so I had a pretty sweet set-up. Eventually, I left Spumco to do my own paintings for galleries, and it went pretty well. One of my galleries asked if I do portraits, and I liked the idea. My mom always said that when you're applying for jobs and they ask if you can do something, say "yes", and learn later, which is what I did. I was also taking a portrait painting course at the Ottawa School of Art at that time. I received a few portrait commissions, and also started reading International Artist Magazine, where Juan Martinez had a six-part article on painting and drawing in the Academy way. He was teaching courses nearby in Toronto, so with my big landscape bucks I enrolled in one of his workshops!

Nick and I had all sorts of inspiring talks over glasses of wine about "imagine if I were a figure painter", and that was that. There was no turning back. I took more classes at the Academy of Realist Art in Toronto, and it was there that I heard about Yuqi Wang. I looked into it and discovered that he taught workshops at Andreeva in Santa Fe! Honestly, the rest is like a magical dream come true. I kinda mentioned to my mom that I would die if I didn't take that course. In an unexpected way, I actually found myself attending that two-week workshop on holiday with my mom and sister, Jessica (also an Illustrator- worked on The Ripping Friends ).

I fell in love with Santa Fe, and left there literally crying my head off in the airport. I was writing in my journal about how I was absolutely going to find a way to come back to take his nine month workshop later that year, which was way too expensive for me. I even saw an artist that I had met in Santa Fe at the airport while I was crying at a table alone. I stayed on top of things when I got home, and to my amazement I received an email from Jane Angelhart, a wonderful painter and the Director of Andreeva Academy at the time. She asked if I would like to be the TA for Yuqi's workshop, and also take it for free! I said yes right away, and didn't really tell anyone except Nick for months, not even my parents. My mom was pretty surprised when she eventually received a letter from Andreeva confirming my position. I didn't even know where I was going to stay! It is such a long and complicated story, but in the end I found myself in a Santa Fe hotel with Nick, one that he had sweetly rented for three days. That was the amount of time I had to find a place to live! I found the best place ever on the second night, and moved in the next day.

JA: As a recipient of numerous awards, including two Awards of Excellence from the Federation of Canadian Artists, Best of Show in the National Art Premier, as well as a Conference Scholarship from the Portrait Society of America; what goals do you have set for yourself as an artist, having already achieved so much at such a young age?

KG: Well, each time I accomplish one goal, I make new ones. Artistically, I just want to keep getting better. I'd like to work more narratives into my paintings and become looser with my brushwork. Actually, I've never painted a figure with a live model outdoors, so I want to do that soon!

Also, I often look to other artists that I admire to help me set specific goals for my career. I'm a big goal-setting person, I write them down and stuff. I guess I really want to get into New York, especially something like Arcadia or Forum Gallery, one day. A lot of goals like that. Other galleries that my favorite artists are in would be great too! I mean, at this point, to even think something like "being in world class museums one day would be nice" seems a little far-fetched, but that would be nice.

JA: If you had the ability to make the public more aware of one specific artist, who would it be, and why?

KG: Can't I choose two? I would have to say Jeremy Lipking, because he's my favorite living artist. There's never enough exposure for contemporary realist artists. Also, Yuqi Wang. He's another of my favorite living artists, and I find that he's really not that well known. He's a Chinese painter who now lives in Brooklyn, and yeah, he's just ridiculously good!

JA: If you could use only one word to define your work, what would it be?

KG: Painting?

#3. A Conversation with Mark Mayerson

Jason Anders: You got your start in animation in 1976 with the television series Schoolhouse Rock!; how did that job come about, and did you have any experiences working with Tom Yohe?

Mark Mayerson: I only worked on one Science Rock segment in 1977. Al Eugster did me a favor and brought me in to help hit a deadline. Usually, Al did all of the Science Rock segments for Kim and Gifford Productions. As the junior animator on one segment, I really didn't have any interaction with Tom Yhoe.

JA: Many animators who worked in television throughout the eighties have claimed that it was the lowest point for cartoons, recycling the same story ideas into rushed drawings and poor overall quality. What were your thoughts on the industry during that time, and have they changed in retrospect?

MM: I spent most of the eighties working on television commercials, both drawn and computer animated. I also worked on some television specials, and one series. There's no question that the eighties was a poor decade, but a lot of the foundation of the nineties resurgence was built during that time.

One of the things I worked on was the first television series to include computer animated characters, Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future. The series was one of the many in the eighties built on a toy line, this one from Mattel. The main part of the series was live-action, and the CGI characters were a couple of robot villians. The writers had little interest in developing them as characters; they were used more as animated punching bags. One of the toys were able to read a signal off the television, so that you could shoot at the bad guys with it. The signal would then tell you if you hit them or not. It was sort of a very crude version of a first-person shooter video game.

The best material that I worked on in the eighties was a series of television specials for Michael Sporn Productions. Michael has always been handicapped by low budgets, but he's one of the most intelligent producer-directors working in animation.

JA: After being an animator for The Emperor's New Clothes in 1993, it would be three years before you would produce Monster By Mistake, a project which you also wrote and directed. What was your experience like going from animator to producer?

MM: The first Monster By Mistake television special aired in 1996. My goal was to be a writer-director. Producing was a duty taken on to help get the show made, rather than an ambition of mine. The other issue is that, in television, nobody knows what producers do, but they have the only job title that anyone respects. My duties involved hiring the animation crew and having a say in the voice casting.

JA: What do you make of the current state of animation and where it's headed?

MM: In many ways, animation is healthy right now and technically very sophisticated, but there are big weak spots. The television business is declining. Budgets are getting lower, and there are fewer independents able to get shows off the ground. There's a lot of reliance on Flash and Toon Boom software, but a lot of the animation that comes from these packages are stiff and repetitive, because the people using them take the easy way out.

On the feature front, animation is as sophisticated as it has ever been; but due to high budgets and marketing costs, studios generally play it safe and only aim their films at the family audience. The stories are getting stale because the subject matter is so restricted. Persepolis is probably my favorite feature of the last several years simply because it tackles more challenging subject matter.

The video game business appears to be healthy, and certainly the games are more visually sophisticated than they've ever been before.

I'm waiting for somebody to create a property on the web that will break out into a mainstream hit. When that happens, I think the ground is going to shift significantly. I keep urging people to create their own ideas and get them to an audience via the web.

JA: What led you into teaching animation at Sheridan College, one of Canada's premier polytechnic institutes?

MM: I was unable to sell another television series after Monster By Mistake, and there were no job opportunities in Toronto that were interesting to me. The animation industry in Toronto is heavily concentrated in television work, and the business is in decline. It seemed like a good time to try something else.

I enjoy teaching a lot. Working with students is somewhat simular to directing animators on a show. In both cases, my job was to improve what ends up on the screen. The faculty and students at Sheridan are a terrific bunch of people who all love animation.

JA: Who would you label as your favorite animation director currently in the business?

MM: I have several. I think that Michael Sporn is vastly underrated and under appreciated. His television special, Abel's Island, is a genuine classic made on a low budget.


I don't think there's anybody in North America directing better than Brad Bird. I hope that we don't lose him to live-action for good. If he returns to animation, I hope that he is willing to broaden the ideas that drive his central characters.

Eric Goldberg is immensely talented, but rarely finds himself in a position to do the work he's suited for without interference. His Rhapsody in Blue from Fantasia 2000 is a small masterpiece.

You can't talk about animation directors without mentioning Miyazaki. Every one of his features is at least interesting, and several are among the greatest animated features ever made.

JA: If there were one piece of animation you would select to preserve for personal significance, which would it be and why?

MM: Anna and Bella by Borge Ring. I love the design and subject matter. I also love that Ring was able to breathe life into cartoon clichés by using them to comment on emotional truths.

JA: What do you feel is the most important word of advice you have to offer aspiring artists?

MM: If you depend on the animation industry to provide emotional satisfaction, you're doomed to frustration and disappointment. It may occasionally happen, but if it does, it is only a temporary situation. Find a way outside of work to satisfy your creative needs, so that the frustration doesn't overwhelm you.

The other thing I would mention is to keep your life in balance. Eat right, get enough sleep, and spend time with people you care about. No film or television show ever made is worth dying for, especially when there will be another bunch of movies out next week. The fate of every television show is cancellation.

Visit Mark's animation blog here: MayersonOnAnimation

#2. A Conversation with Katie Rice

Jason Anders:  John Kricfalusi introduces you on the Lost Episodes DVD saying that you sought him out because you grew up watching The Ren & Stimpy Show. What you were doing before being hired by Spumco, and what was it was like being hired by someone who inspired you to draw?

Katie Rice: Working at Spumco was the very first art job I ever had!  Before that, I worked at a pet store where I helped smuggle ferrets from Nevada into California (I didn't know it wasn't allowed at the time). I didn't go to school or anything, I was just kind of a bum and eventually moved to L.A. and got hired to ink on Weekend Pussy Hunt. Working there was amazing.  I was extremely shy.  I remember I would come in, sit down, working nine hours straight without lunch or breaks, and leave without talking to anyone unless it was to get more drawings to ink. I was so intimidated by all the amazing artists who were there. By the time I came out of my shell we all got laid off, which was a huge bummer. I remember thinking at that point my career in cartoons was over, and I went back to Nevada completely defeated. I bounced back though after being a waitress for three months and using the money to try again.

The first time I talked to John was a long time ago!  It started with a lengthy fan letter I sent him, probably along with some drawings of Sody or something, too. I was thirteen when I emailed him and we started emailing back and forth. I was probably obnoxious as all get out, but I remember that John was patient and enthusiastic to help me with drawing.

JA: John K. refers to you as a specialist, claiming you are the best artist in the business and the princess of "sexy girl" artists. What inspired you to start drawing the girls that seem to now be your signature characters?


KR: It's funny, people sometimes describe my girls as "sexy," but I totally don't see them that way myself.  I think they're super weird and funny, like my girlfriends that I hang out with. Not that my friends aren't sexy! They are.  Just not in that Shane Glines bombshell sense, although some of them are.  Uh oh, now I'm in trouble.   I guess there are different kinds of sexy... funny sexy, cute sexy, sexy-sexy, weird sexy... all girls are appealing in their own way, and I try to capture that.

I'm not sure why I gravitate towards drawing girls. I used to draw all sorts of things, but at some point in high school I started trying to tell stories by drawing my girlfriends in funny situations. It was so fun, and drawing girls' fashion, faces and goony poses is so enjoyable to me.  I guess it sort of stuck. I'm trying to branch out more, though!

JA: How did it feel to be recruited by John K. to be the lead artist on Naked Beach Frenzy?

KR: Very, very, very frightening. At the time I was honored and excited but also scared to death. I should also add that I wasn't really the lead artist. Obviously it's a girl-heavy episode, but I only designed about half of the beach girls, the other half being designed by Nick Cross and John himself.

Back to the subject of fear; before working on Ren & Stimpy: Adult Party Cartoon, I had almost no experience using real drawing principles. I didn't know construction, perspective, composition and had no idea how to make a good cartoon. At the time I probably wasn't ready to take on the job of designing and laying-out all those girls, but I'm grateful to John regardless for giving me a chance. 

When I look back on that cartoon, it's a bit painful. It was an amazing learning experience, however. Working on Adult Party Cartoon was by far the most challenging work I've ever done. I think the girls I designed and helped to layout for Weird Al's video, Close, But No Cigar, are how I wanted the APC girls to be, but I wasn't skilled enough at the time.


JA: What was it like actually working for a studio like Spumco? Do you have any plans for future involvement with the company?

KR: I hope so! Animation is so fickle. My ultimate goal is to be able to work for myself, but that sometimes seems a long way off. I learned almost everything I know from Spumco, and definitely feel a sense of loyalty towards all the artists who brought that studio to life.

JA: Tell me about Dumm Comics, which recently debuted, and also about the characters Skadi and Diseasoid.

KR: Oh man, working on Dumm Comics is amazingly fun! I still feel very amateur as a comic artist, having never done comics professionally before, but I love it all the same. I love all those guys that work on it with me- Gabe, Sean, Ricky, Fred and of course my boyfriend Luke who draws Skadi with me.

Luke and I work really well together, and have a great system worked out. We both come up with ideas for comics on our own. Let's say I come up with some dumb idea...I'll scribble it out super fast and show it to Luke- usually the case is that I'll add way too many details and the comic will be too long and cluttered. Luke is better at composition and finding solutions, so he'll go over my rough and fix my problem areas. Next, we'll go to separate computers (we both got cintiqs lately), and I'll draw, ink and color the characters on my computer while Luke does the backgrounds on his.

Skadi is a nomadic barbarian girl who is on a religious mission to eat every kind of meat in the world so she can be a man when she goes to heaven and sport a fine Viking beard. She's not a bad sort, but mostly acts on animal instincts and the need to survive. She has a soft spot for Diseasoid; even though she's horribly rough on him, he wants nothing more than to escape and live out his life peacefully in a bush somewhere.

JA: You have expressed a desire to publish a cartoon art book, tell me about your ideas for the book and what progress you've been able to make.

KR: So far a lot of the creative ideas are done.  My art is all scanned and I have ideas for the layouts. But I really don't know much about book publishing at all. I'd prefer to have a real book publisher help me out rather than do the self publishing route. I've seen self-published art books and they look amazing, but I'm not really good with that kind of thing. I need someone less scatter-brained to help me! I lost steam a little with making this book a reality when I started on Dumm Comics, but I still plan on doing it in the near future.

JA: You mentioned you were really inspired by both Alberto Vivanco and the manga artist Moyoco Anno. Tell me about them and other girls' mangas you love.

KR: First off I have to thank Shane Glines for sharing his collection of Vivanco art on his Cartoon Retro site! I only just heard about him, and really love his effortless way of drawing hilarious men and beautiful girls. He's great at a ton of things... the way he draws hair and eyes on girls are simple and beautiful. And Moyoco Anno is great! I am a huge sucker for any girl's romance comics, even ones that aren't drawn very well. Anno's are really cool to me though. She has a great sense of fashion, plus she's funny and draws hilarious expressions. Another thing I like about her comics is that the main characters are never your typical heroine.  Often times they're abrasive, use bad judgment and are irrational just like many girls in real life! As for the other mangas I read, I've probably read most of them. I love Gokinjo Monogatari and other comics by Ai Yazawa. Actually, besides the artists of Spumco, she is one of my oldest artistic influences.


JA: Tell me about your music with Kot'n Katie and Kali Kazoo. Have you considered cutting an album or perhaps touring with your music and art?


KR: Yes! We both really want to do all sorts of silly stuff with this. It's a dream come true for me having someone to sing with. As a young girl I wanted to be a musician as much as I wanted to be an artist, but ended up concentrating only on art. I absolutely love singing. I wish I could play an instrument though...actually I own about 20 instruments but can only play one song (if that) on each one.

JA: Do you remember the moment in life that you decided to become a cartoonist?

KR: Probably since Ren & Stimpy came out when I was nine years old. I was obsessed in a pretty scary way. I don't think I even watched any other TV shows at that time, nothing else held my interest. I used to pause the episodes that I'd taped and draw each expression and pose over and over until I had almost storyboarded whole scenes. Then in high school I got really into anime. I know a lot of artists look down on Japanese cartoons, but they are the same as American cartoons... there is some boring stuff, and there is some amazing stuff. I find a million things to be inspired by in Japanese cartoons, in their culture, humor and ideas as well.

JA: Tell me about your experiences working at Nickelodeon on El Tigre: the Adventures of Manny Rivera.


KR: Definitely the best experience I've had working in a major cartoon studio. I was surrounded by friends and artists that I'd known for years. Jorge and Sandra, the show's creators, are wonderful people and working on their show felt great. Working hard and doing a good job wasn't just for my own satisfaction- it felt great knowing that the work I was doing would be appreciated by artists that I respected and looked up to.

JA: Do you have a favorite cartoon of all time?

KR: That's a really hard one! I guess the answer is no. It'd have to be between the Betty Boop cartoon Mysterious Mose, the Ub Iwerks cartoon Little Boy Blue and the Ren & Stimpy episode Big House Blues. But I love Disney's Pecos Bill, too.  There are too many!


JA: What are your thoughts on the censorship that Pecos Bill was put through?

KR: I think it is really annoying! When I bought Pecos Bill on tape a few years ago and discovered that they had chopped a whole verse off the song to hide the fact that he had a cigarette, I was really mad. I love that cartoon, and the song as well! I thought it was strange that they took out the cigarette, but left in the part about "Redskins." Obviously, I'd rather they leave it be and not cut anything, it goes to show that cartoons sure don't get a lot of respect as being real art. Lots of old movies and music might have "questionable content" that today's PC parents wouldn't approve of, but you don't see that stuff getting hacked to pieces!

JA: Do you remember while watching The Ren & Stimpy Show as a kid noticing when it was taken over by Games Animation?

KR: I remember this well! I was really young when the Spumco episodes stopped and the Games ones started, maybe eleven or something, so obviously I was pretty ignorant with art and didn't have the same kind of observational abilities that I have now. However, I definitely noticed a change. Even though Spumco sometimes has the reputation of making "ugly" art with bulging eyes, popping veins, and gross close-ups, the first thing that drew me to the show as a kid was it's undeniable cuteness. Look at the designs in Big House Blues. They're really cute, amazingly cute!

I had never seen anything in that kind of style before. And not only that, the show is very honest in its stories and the personalities of the characters. When Stimpy leaves home to be a Hollywood big shot and leaves Ren at home all sad and lonely, it really pulled my heartstrings! I was hooked. And even though I respect a lot of the artists who worked for Games Animation, the episodes that came out after Spumco left me feeling sort of flat. And the cuteness was gone. There were definitely some nice looking drawings and paintings in the Games episodes, but I was no longer involved with the show the way I had been. Ren and Stimpy were no longer "real" to me. I remember waiting for more cartoons to come on that were like the ones that had me so obsessed originally, but they never did.

JA: What are your thoughts on theatrical animation today?

KR: I'm not really a big fan of most new theatrical animated movies. Like I said with the last question, two things that get me really excited when I watch a cartoon are whether it's cute; and by this I mean appealing, not cutesy in a Hello Kitty sense, and whether the characters are represented in a "real" way. This is kind of hard to explain actually- One could argue that the exaggerated acting in a cartoon like Sven Hoek, where Ren frightens Stimpy and Sven, is too over the top, but for me it feels motivated by real emotions rather than the sort of acting in cartoons that is popular nowadays, where the animators seem to try to emulate live action acting, but without honest motivation.

It's really hard to explain why most modern animated movies don't grab me, many just don't feel honest in the acting. This is really difficult to put into words, because technically the old Disney movies that I love have somewhat flat acting... but the music and mood and level of artistic skill is so high it doesn't matter to me. I suppose I should add that art and design definitely goes through trends, and the trends that are showing up in modern animation are not to my taste at all.

JA: You've made mention of a "new" and "secret" project that you are working on, and have even showcased some of the characters you've created for it.  Are you able to leak any hints at all as to what it might be?


KR: I only said it was "new" and "secret" to get people intrigued. Actually, I've mentioned the project a few times before, but never went into too much detail about what it was. But now I will! I'm working on my own personal comics that are based on real things that happened to me and my friends in high school. It's called Stupid Girl Stories, although there are also lots of boy characters in it too. I really remember those times in school as the best times of my life. We did so many lame things, and we were all so dysfunctional. The kinds of people I knew back then and the dumb stuff we did is really what my drawings are all about; doing pointless stuff in the name of fun, making fun of everything, and acting like an idiot. I also don't think there are too many comics or cartoons that portray girls the way we really are, and I want to try my hand and see if I can do it. These comics would be different from Skadi, in that they'd be longer stories with less gags and more dialogue.

JA: How are you enjoying working on Skadi for Dumm Comics?

KR: I'm really enjoying it! I've always wanted to be a storyteller, but never thought it was a strong point of mine. Working on Skadi however has really made me want to work on it and get better. We put a lot of time into each comic, although it differs depending on how busy we are that week with other things, like paying jobs. The first comic we did for Dumm Comics, which will never ever be seen by anyone, was finished pretty quickly.  Maybe in one day, but not putting in too much time or effort. But as we kept making more, we started putting in more time and hard work. I'd say our best ones might take about fourteen hours in all. It's hard to say because both Luke and I will sit down to work, but noodle around on the Internet for an hour or so, and we take a lot of breaks. Some comics will definitely have more love and work put into them than others.

JA: What were your favorite comics growing up, and have you discovered any as an adult that you've fallen in love with?

KR: I wasn't a huge comic reader as a little kid, but my dad would buy all the Calvin and Hobbes and The Far Side books when they would come out, and I loved those. I am pretty sure my eyes got as screwed up as they are from trying to read The Far Side in pitch darkness night after night, no joke. I should also add that I went through that typical "mom tears up comic books in front of kid" situation that you always see made fun of! The only old comics I had as a kid were some Disney ones. I don't even know where I got them, or whether they were actual vintage comics or reprints. Anyhow, my mom caught me with them after lights out and tore them into tiny bits! Shame!

Now that I'm older and more mature, I am a bigger comic nerd. I have a giant collection of manga that is constantly growing. Also I love Peter Bagge's comics! His comic, Hate, is a big inspiration to me. It's semi-autobiographical, but not in that self-important annoying way. Also, the characters are drawn in a super cartoony and funny way that I love. And best of all, it's got that honesty thing I'm always talking about, where the characters feel like real people that you actually care about. I hope the comics I'm working on now can be a fraction of how entertaining his are! I also want to learn more about vintage comics. I'm pretty sure I could get into superhero comics, but there are so many that I don't know where to start. I love vintage romance comics though, I've got a pretty big collection of those. And Sergio Aragones! I've got almost all the Groo books. Oh, and I can't forget Harvey Kurtzman and Milt Gross! Two of the best comic masters, in my opinion! I'm sure I'm leaving out a bunch.

JA: We talked earlier about theatrical animation, but what are your thoughts on today's televised cartoons?

KR: I really don't watch very many! Every once in a while I get brave and click to the cartoon channels, but it's usually disappointing. Disney seems to only have those weird live action shows. Nickelodeon should probably just change it's name to the SpongeBob channel. Not that I've got anything against SpongeBob, but it seems like it's the only thing on. Everyone has been telling me the Cartoon Network series Chowder is really cool, but I've never seen it on! I saw some designs though, and the main character is really cute, so maybe I'd like it. Ugh, it's a bit embarrassing calling myself a cartoonist but not even knowing what's on television!

JA: You recently wrote about the generic designs of the girls created for Altruists, writing your thoughts about even Disney princesses all looking the same; John Kricfalusi has even made comparisons to some Disney boys being the same design as the girls, why is it that personality is something artists are afraid to give their characters today?

KR: Most artists aren't afraid to give their characters personality.  I think they want the characters to have personality, but it's just really hard to do; Especially if you want to please a large amount of people. It's easy to trick people into liking a bland character who doesn't really do anything to make you dislike him. But to take a character that has many flaws and is super-specific and make them likable is very different, and you run the risk that some people just might not like it. Also, design and personality are two pretty different things- obviously, the personality of the character will effect the design, you can instantly tell bad guys from good guys in most cartoons, but I don't think it's smart to go too far with that.

An example: I remember working on a project with John once where we had to design an artistic girl. John thought the girl should be based on me, and the end design was a happy looking blonde girl with a big nose and round features, and a curvy figure. When we showed the design to people, I was a bit surprised to see that some responded negatively- they thought she was an airhead, a dumb girl who would be into shopping and trends. People saw the blonde hair and big boobs and fell into a trap. I remember thinking to myself that it would be so much fun to actually animate the design and give it life, and put a nerdy, obsessive personality into her. The easy route would be to make the "artistic girl" have the obvious traits- maybe she's skinny, hides behind her hair, or only wears black or "kooky" artist clothing. That gets boring if you ask me!

Artists don't get a chance very often to ignore stereotypes or break the mold. Wow, maybe I should do a blog post about this- I could go on and on but I should probably stop. I hope I kind of answered your question!

JA: What is it about Kiraz, Sokol, and Frazetta that stand out to you in their designs; and what have you learned from studying their work that you're able to apply to yours?


KR: The first thing that stands out is how amazing each artist is skill-wise. I am more familiar with Sokol and Frazetta than I am Kiraz, so most of what I say here is aimed at them. I think sometimes people look at artists like Frazetta and Sokol and only see the surface details, or only see what the painting is of, and not the incredible amount of skill that is there. When I look at a Frazetta painting, I don't just see a girl with a spear or a monster fighting a warrior- I see power, emotions, and an extremely intimidating amount of talent.

I guess what I have learned from these amazing artists is the ability to see myself for what I am- an artist with a long way to go. I have definitely been inspired by some of Sokol, Kiraz, and Frazetta's design choices, but to say that I have sat down and studied their drawings and came out a better artist would be dishonest. Superficially, I could also say that Kiraz's way of stylizing girls' hair and clothes, Sokol's way of drawing eyes and lips, and Frazetta's ability to make a potbelly on a girl look cute are all things that have influenced me design wise.

JA: What was your most recent drawing of?

KR: Something weird! Wanna see?

JA: If you could sum up your work as an artist in one word, what would it be?

KR: It depends on the week.  Lately, though?  Barbaric.

JA: What is one word of advice you have to offer aspiring cartoonists?

KR: Definitely stick close with other artists. Seek out and talk to artists you look up to. Learn from them and never get a big head about your work- you can ALWAYS grow and improve, and learning is half the fun. Another important reason to get acquainted with lots of artists is because the easiest way to get a job at a studio is through a friend. This isn't exactly fair, but even if your portfolio is amazing, the person who is hiring might take their friend over you. Also, the person looking at your portfolio doing the hiring might not even be an artist! The industry is in a tight spot right now, and it isn't always easy for a cartoonist to find satisfying work. Just stick in there and keep working hard to get good so cartoons can make a comeback!

Follow Katie on Twitter: @KatieJRice

Visit Katie's website: FunnyCute