#100. A Conversation with Tad Stones

"I am the terror that flaps in the night. I am the low ratings that cancel your program." Phrases like these are what stuck with me and anyone else who grew up watching "Darkwing Duck" on The Disney Afternoon as a kid- "I am the ten dollar service charge on all returned checks. I am Darkwing Duck!" As a kid you never stop to think about the people behind-the-scenes creating these cartoons, such as Jim Cummings in a sound booth recording the voice of Drake Mallard, or Philip Giffin composing the music... but it was Tad Stones who was responsible for it all. The series creator, and the writer/ producer/ director of the show, has done a lot more than "Darkwing Duck", but he was kind enough to humor my questions in an interview specifically focused on it. Let's get dangerous.

Jason Anders: So I'm curious about your thoughts on The Duck Knight Returns, the Boom! Studios comic book reboot of Darkwing Duck by Ian Brill and James Silvani. What is it like to see your creation through the eyes of new artists?

Tad Stones: Their previous editor, Aaron Sparrow, brought me in to talk after they were well under way, but before they were published. We actually met at a restaurant and they plied me with food to get me talking. I met with Aaron, Ian, and even James when he was in from Hawaii. I really appreciated how they took the essence of Darkwing Duck and brought it into modern comic storytelling. I know I wouldn't have done that. I would've concentrated on "one and done" issues because DW is a child of the Silver Age comics mentality, and I probably would've chased that. But fans like building a continuity and reading stories with a bigger arc unfolding in the background.
I mostly talked to them about character personalities and getting the most out of them. I hit Gosalyn especially hard since they had put her in Gizmoduck's powered suit. Gosalyn's main role is not to be a superhero sidekick or spin-off. She's a source of chaos that complicates DW's life. In fact the animated series would not have sold without her, so I wanted her to get her due in the comics.

JA: What do you recall about the original Darkwing Duck series?  Was it considered a DuckTales spin-off?

TS: Darkwing Duck is not really a DuckTales spin-off. People assume that because of Launchpad. The series development started as a spy-spoof based on the title "Double-O-Duck", which was also a DuckTales episode featuring Launchpad. But it was the title, not the episode, that got things started. The story of how DW was created is in a prose piece in the first Darkwing Duck trade paperback from BOOM! Studios. They're reprinting it in the Darkwing Duck Annual that's out in April. It also has an eight page story from me that introduces a new villain. It's told from Gosalyn's point of view.

JA: How much creative freedom were you allowed on the show?

TS: Our initial development was watched closely, as well as the first few scripts, but after that we were free to go wild. Every show has a development executive to give notes to, and ours was Greg Weisman who had a background as an editor at DC comics. It was a great match. Of course, Greg came over to the light side and became an animation producer of his own creation, Gargoyles. Greg is at Warner Brothers now producing Young Justice for Cartoon Network.
Actually, we did have some hiccups in the last ten or thirteen episodes of Darkwing Duck which were produced for ABC. They just chose their first season from finished scripts and episodes that were originally slated for syndication. But the second season had to go through the usual network pitching grind where they tell you how to write your show. We still turned out some good episodes for them.

As to how close it was to my original vision, the stories mutated with the contributions of my great team of story editors. Animation-wise, I loved the work of Disney's Australian studio who loved the show and gave us first rate animation. That's when I felt the show had matched my dreams.
JA: What was the typical production week on an animated series like during this time?

TS: That's nearly twenty years ago. I've done so many episodes with many of the same people in different configurations that it's pretty much a blur. A happy blur, but a blur nonetheless. Everything was funneled through me for notes, but I hired talented people and let them do their jobs. It's fun when your job is looking for ways to make great work better. But I'm a storyteller at heart, so a large portion of my time was spent with scripts and the story editors.

JA: Which are your three favorite episodes of the show?

TS: I won't say they're my favorites, but there are a couple that do come to mind, like "That Sinking Feeling", which was the pilot script written by myself. I tried to emphasize the character relationships as well as the reality bending-gags I wanted- Like playing the climax on a baseball diamond where they're suddenly wearing partial baseball uniforms without explanation. Then it went out and was animated by Disney Australia and came back funnier than we sent it. I'll always remember the crew laughing uproariously at the pencil test version of that episode.

I also like "Comic Book Capers", which I think was edited by Kevin Hopps. "Little Running Gag" feels like Kevin. Anyway, I love how it plays with both the film and comic book format. It was a very original story with some remarkable visual gags.

I'm blanking on the episode's title, but I also was delighted by the introduction of Splatter Phoenix by Carter Crocker. Characters ran in and out of the paintings at the art museum, sometimes taking on the characteristics of the artist. Great dialogue from Splatter in that too.

JA: Do you have a favorite Darkwing villain?

TS: Megavolt, especially as written by Doug Langdale. Only Doug would think of having Megavolt rob a jewelry store, only to free its light bulbs which shattered tragically when he let them go. Negaduck was over the top and lots of fun, but Megavolt was more unique. Bushroot is another favorite, our take on Swamp Thing. I don't really think of Bushroot as a villain, he's just too sympathetic. Great voice by Tino Insana.

JA: Was it ever decided what Drake Mallard actually did for a living?

TS: It was a conscious decision not to reveal what Drake did. It was a nod to old sitcoms when Dads came home from unspecified jobs, put down their briefcases and donned sweaters and pipes to dispense family wisdom. Also, there was no point in choosing a profession; any story dealing with it would take the focus off of Darkwing's adventures. Kids don't care.

JA: How did you go about casting the voice actors for the series, and was there a lot of improv that made it into the episodes?

TS: Ginny McSwain was our voice and casting director. I would talk over the characters with her and she'd bring them in. She rarely missed. The main characters went through a lot more scrutiny including many auditions and lots of meetings. There wasn't much improv. Sometimes a mild rewording, but it was the performances that made the scripts really shine.

JA: Do you remember any specific visual gags, references, or easter eggs that people may not have caught, such as the references to Gary Larson or The Great Mouse Detective?

TS: No. I did both those gags. I'm sure there were many more by others, but none that come to mind.

(In several episodes there are references to cartoonist Gary Larson, creator of the comic strip "The Far Side". On one episode, Dr. Reginald Bushroot is teased by two fellow scientists, a Dr. Gary and a Dr. Larson. In another cartoon, aliens identify themselves as being from "the far side of the planet Larson". Also, the stautette that Darkwing Duck pushes down to enter his secret lab is of Basil of Baker Street from the Disney feature "The Great Mouse Detective".)

JA: Overall, how would you describe your experience with the show, and is there anything you would do differently if you could go back?

TS: There were lots of action gags that didn't quite work. I'd love to go back and tweak those. Also I'd really tighten the editing of the shows. Modern film and television is edited in a different way now. It's hard for me to watch. But it was a great experience. My two career highlights are Darkwing Duck and Hellboy Animated.

JA: Do you have any future plans involving Darkwing Duck, such as recording commentaries or blogging about the production of the show? Fans were somewhat disappointed by Disney's release of the DVD having edited episodes and void of special features.

TS: Darkwing Duck is 100% owned by Disney. I have nothing to do with it. As to blogging, I've done some but I don't need to live in the past. I have an original comedy in development with Cartoon Network. Can't say what it is. I'm currently working at Bento Box Entertainment on the new Fox primetime show, Bob's Burgers, which has been another great experience.
I tried to tell people at Disney that Darkwing's original fans are now starting to have kids of their own, a perfect target for Darkwing Duck direct-to-video releases. But Disney has different plans for their home video originals, and John Lasseter was way too busy in the early 90's to have Darkwing on the radar. I dare say there are few executives now who understand how big The Disney Afternoon was in its day. George Lucas once said that DuckTales was to syndication what Star Wars was to movies.

If you want more Darkwing stuff you, have to buy the Darkwing stuff that's out there. If the existing DVDs sell big, Disney will certainly release the rest of the episodes. However, I did meet a Disney marketing executive at San Diego Comic Con who said there are Darkwing fans in the lower echelons who are now entering middle-management positions. That could change Disney's outlook. So I guess there's hope for you after all.
Buy Darkwing Duck on DVD here.
Buy Darkwing Duck: Duck Knight Returns here.

"A Conversation with Katee Sackhoff" By Jason Anders

Jason Anders: First of all, I can't believe I'm on the phone with Starbuck. Do people on the street often address you as Captain Thrace?

Katee Sackhoff: (laughs) Um, no... I haven't been yet. Occasionally I'll be standing in the line at Starbucks Coffee and some guy behind me will freak out. I guess the irony is just too much for them.

JA: So how are things? 

KS: Things are fantastic! I'm just working on 24 and I've been doing that for months now. I think we're on episode seven. It's funny because my first episode that I did was with one of the directors from Battlestar Galactica, Brad Turner- he directed "Flesh and Bone" from the first season. As far as the subject matter and the style of the show, it was just a very seamless transition for me.

JA: I just read that before getting into acting you originally wanted to be a professional swimmer?

KS: It's funny when people call it a "professional swimmer", but my goal was to go to the Olympics. I look back at it fondly now and wonder if I ever would have made it, and I have no idea.

What's interesting in my being an athlete is that I did just enough in school to make sure my grade point average was high enough to get into the college I wanted to go to. Most schools, like Stanford, you would think you'd need a high GPA to get in to- but if you're an athlete it seems to go down quite a bit. So I did just well enough, and by the time I stopped swimming I realized it was something I didn't want to do. I had no desire to go to college, and I got in to some schools and just wasn't excited about it. It was my worst fear in life to follow the path of everyone else. I just kind of threw the dice and picked something out.

JA: Were you ever interested in theater?

KS: I acted in high school because I was bored. I got fired from one of the plays because I was told that I was unprofessional and that I wouldn't have a career by my drama teacher, and also that I was untalented. I thought that was interesting because she was later fired. She had actually fired me from the play because I was at ski-team practice, and I was supposed to be at rehearsal and was late. She told me that I don't take my job seriously enough and that I'll never make anything out of myself. She was a lovely woman.

JA: Did that have a major affect on you?

KS: No, I just said "you're a high school drama teacher, I think I'll be okay."

JA: What was your first professional acting job?

KS: I was seventeen and there were auditions to be Kirsten Dunst's body double in a Lifetime movie in 1998 called Fifteen and Pregnant. She had to go to school at the time, and while she was in school they would bring in body doubles and do other people's close-ups on her back. However, I didn't get the role because I was too tall, but they told me I should audition for a role that they were casting and I that's what I ended up getting.

I got my SAG card from that, which I didn't realize then how important it was to have. The director from that movie really liked me, and convinced my mom that she should let me move to Los Angeles. He even introduced me to my agent who is now my manager today. Cut to thirteen years later and I'm still with the same people I was with then, so I really owe a lot to that director (Sam Pillsbury) because he's the one who got me my start.

JA: A series you were involved in that I really enjoyed was The Education of Max Bickford; what was it like working with Richard Dreyfuss and playing his daughter?

KS: It was fantastic! It really came and went, right? That show was unique because Marcia Gay Harden had just won an Oscar for her performance in Pollock, Eli Wallach and Peter O'Toole were phenomenal actors, and I got to come to work every day and perform with Oscar-winners on a daily basis. Also, I think that when you're twenty years old you don't quite know what is staring you right in the face, and so I think I kind of took it for granted at the time, but it taught me a valuable lesson.

JA: What are the earliest stages of becoming involved in Battlestar Galactica that you can recall?

KS: In December of 2002 I got a script and I read it, purely because it was pilot season and I was auditioning for everything. I was told that I would never get the role because I was too young and not tough enough, but I auditioned anyway. Six auditions later I had the role.

JA: I'm sure you get this question all the time, but was the role of Starbuck changed to a female character from the original series for you, or was it always intended to be a female character in the re-imagined show?

KS: I've never been asked that before, actually. No, it wasn't. It was a decision that Ron Moore made the second he got the script that Starbuck and Boomer needed to be women. He didn't give it much thought or plan it out, he just made a decision. It could have just as easily been Apollo, it could have been anyone. It could have been Adama for all I know.

JA: You were surrounded by quite the cast and crew for this series as well.

KS: You know, I've been blessed to always have a certain caliber of actors surrounding me, so it's acting school on a daily basis. You get to work and have professionals staring you in the face, it's really nice. Ron Moore is one of the most brilliant people I've ever met and I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for him. I would follow him into the sun.

JA: Is there a piece of work that stands out to you as your best?

KS: I think that I constantly surprise myself. I remember calling my manager from the set of 24 and told her how I just did the best work of my life. I would say that Battlestar Galactica is a prime example of actors growing from the very beginning. I think that the series allowed actors to grow and become better.

JA: Have you ever had role models in the business?

KS: No, I never really looked up to anyone in this business because I never aspired to have that persona, it never caught me as something that would be interesting. I just wanted to do this job. I'm intrigued by people like Glenn Close and Meryl Streep, but as far as looking to them... I never modeled them or tried to emulate somebody.

JA: Would you define yourself as someone who lives in the moment?

KS: I'm not a "live in the moment" type of person, I wish that I was! I'm constantly striving to accomplish something else. I don't know, there's an audition on Friday and I really want to get the movie - and then after Friday it'll be like "now I really have to pack up my house and get out of here as fast as possible." After that it'll be like "wow, I really wanna get those new parts for my motorcycle." 

Something I've learned about this business is that if you really try to navigate yourself through the waters of your career, the more disappointed you'll become because it never quite works out the way you wanted it to. You really just have to go with it, and you'll be surprised.

JA: Any idea what is next for you?

KS: I have an audition this Friday...

JA: Can you tell us what for?

KS: No. (laughs) I'll tell you if I get it.

Follow @KateeSackhoff on Twitter!

#98. A Conversation with Bear McCreary

Jason Anders: Before time gets away from us, I really want to make sure we spend a little time talking about Caprica, and the origins of the music you wrote for the series.

Bear McCreary: Well I could talk for days about that, but to give you the shortened version... Caprica was an interesting time in my career because we were coming off of Battlestar Galactica which had an established fan-base and tone, so I approached it with hesitation and curiosity. I didn't really know what to expect. This was not the move I would have expected, because Star Trek and Stargate sort of established that when you do spin-offs you keep them in the same genre. Caprica went in to a totally different genre... it was still science fiction, but it was a family-centered drama and more terrestrial.

It had a lot of differences, but when I saw the pilot I was really blown away. I was very drawn in and excited to work on it. What's interesting is that as the show went on, it became frustrating that I was so many steps ahead of what the audience had seen. I knew during the airing of our first nine or ten episodes that the last five were going to be great. I always had this sense that people may have had trouble finding it, or it may not have been what they expected, but it will find its own audience. SyFy was really pushing it. Those final five episodes didn't really have the opportunity to revitalize the series and get us a second season the way that I had always thought it would.

JA: For Caprica you've written an anthem, burlesque, opera, and even rap... have you ever had the opportunity to be that diverse outside of BSG and Caprica for a single project?

BM: In terms of musical diversity, nothing matches Galactica... even Caprica. Granted, the things I got to do with Caprica's first and only season were more diverse than what I got to do in Galactica's first season, but it's not a fair comparison. I think that if Caprica had continued there's no telling what sort of music I would have had the opportunity to explore. They really are both special in that way, most of the other series I've worked on have a more unified sound... not to say that those shows don't.

Those shows both had a very specific sound, but they also had leeway and freedom to do unusual things. Honestly, probably the closest I've come to that kind of musical playground is The Cape. It's a show where every week our hero comes up with a new super-villain, and each episode has its own identity. It allows me to bring in all kinds of different sounds and themes. Generally speaking, television music is not about exploration but about finding a sound that fits with your show and having every episode match it. The freedom that I have with these shows is not the norm.

JA: I think if you were to ask average TV viewers about composers in television they would only be able to list two names, yours and Michael Giacchino- Did you ever imagine or count on becoming a star composer?

BM: I never even thought about it. It's never been something that's been on my radar. I've always viewed television, film, and video games as just a common area in which composers work. If you look at the early days of television you had guys like John Williams working on Gilligan's Island and Lost In Space, Jerry Goldsmith was doing The Twilight Zone, Elmer Bernstein had Johnny Staccato, Henry Mancini had Peter Gunn... the list just goes on. These were stunningly talented guys who were working in television and film at the same time.

In the late seventies and early eighties you had guys like Mike Post, Pete Carpenter, and Stu Phillips come along. These guys really cornered the market in TV and made outstanding scores, churning out a lot of albums. I have a feeling it was that combined with the technology changing that you suddenly had groups of composers primarily for film and another primarily for television. Although during this time Jerry Goldsmith and Elmer Bernstein would still do music for TV miniseries and movies of the week. Growing up, I never perceived any sort of difference and never thought about being a "star" composer in TV. When I got Battlestar Galactica all I wanted to do was serve that sport and help bring the story to life. I never imagined at the time that the music would get the attention it received, that I would be performing this music in concerts around the world, or releasing soundtrack albums that charted as high as they did. Every key was written to tell a story.

JA: I think it's fascinating that the music you've done in television has resulted in touring concerts, piano books, albums, and more. Your music for TV is far better than many film scores, as the shows are better than many films.

BM: When I do feature films it's not like I change my mindset or orchestration team, we're just making my music. Whether it ends up in a game, television show, or a movie doesn't change the way I approach it or the amount of energy I put in to it. Very frequently I see albums and scores that I have done ranked highly on Best Soundtrack lists and winning various awards. I was on those lists with people who's budgets were ten times my size, multi-million dollar movie scores. It makes me smile that the music is resonating with people and that they're responding to what I'm doing.

JA: You've mentioned before that the first soundtrack to catch your ear was Alan Silvestri's Back to the Future score- Can you elaborate on what it was about that music that got your attention?

BM: I think the obvious thing about that score is melody and energy. It really is unique. It was a style at the time to have really big orchestral scores in your adventure movies, a style that has kind of gone out of favor. Generally speaking, orchestral scores blend into the background a little bit more. Not only did Alan Silvestri's score not blend into the background, it reached out of the screen and shook you by the shoulders and said "pay attention to this!" I saw it multiple times in the theater and it stunned me when it came out. I didn't know that soundtrack albums existed at the time, so I would sneak in my cassette recorder and taped the movie so that I could go home and listen to it and pluck the tune out on my piano. Keep in mind that I'm five years old when I'm doing this. Clearly that movie and its music was very high on the list of things I was aware of in the world.

JA: Are there any current scores out there now that have caught your ear or you've grown to love?

BM: I really enjoy Carter Burwell's score for True Grit . Ironically enough it reminded me of music that Elmer Bernstein might have scored, and he did the music for the original True Grit in 1969, but it doesn't sound anything like Elmer's True Grit, it just sounds like other things he has done in that style- Very restrained and folky, and it fit the movie perfectly. It really was inspiring, and Carter is one of those few guys who's music I always know I'm going to enjoy.

JA: Do you have a personal favorite piece of music that you've written?

BM: If I were to try an narrow it down, the nominees would include "Diaspora Oratorio" from Battlestar Galactica's fourth season. That piece for choir and orchestra was not only special musically for me, but it was at an important a vulnerable time in my life... I created something there that really represents "me" in a very personal way. Similarly I think "Dreilide Thrace Sonata No. 1", which was a big piano composition I wrote for BSG's season four episode Someone To Watch Over Me... I actually wrote that in Vancouver while I was on the set. During the day I'm working with the cast and crew, and at night I'm back in my hotel hammering out this piano piece that Katee Sackhoff is going to end up learning. If you listen to those two pieces they are musically sophisticated beyond the vast majority of everything I've written.

JA: I love the theme that you created for The Plan.

BM: That was a good one! I loved that one because I realized while scoring The Plan that I had a unique opportunity because the final episode of the series does not end with a piece of music that I wrote. I didn't have the chance to have the final say. I realized the ending credits of The Plan was truly the ending of Battlestar Galactica, and I had a four and a half minute empty space to write whatever I wanted. It was a fun opportunity to write something that re-capped the energy of the entire series into one piece of music. I set the main title theme to a heavy metal, rock and roll piece... it was exciting. We actually had Scott Ian from Anthrax and John Avila & Steve Bartek from Oingo Boingo all on the same song!

JA: Do you think the live concert for BSG music will be released on DVD?

BM: We released a collection of six songs for a UK DVD, but I am hopeful that sometime in the next year we'll be able to release a DVD of the entire show. The mixes sound great and the performances are so energetic, and it's something that I know BSG fans really want.

JA: How has the reception been for the new piano book you just released?

BM: The reception has been phenomenal, I've been thrilled with how excited people are... it really was thanks to fan enthusiasm that this thing even existed at all. When we first approached the publishers who have the rights to this music they just didn't seem very interested in doing it. I went on Twitter and asked people to let me know if they'd pick it up if it came out. Within a few hours I had around 500 responses. I was able to say to the publishers"just imagine who else is out there."

JA: What do you enjoy doing most when you're not making music? If you even have spare time.

BM: Most of the things I do in my spare time are kind of work related. I'm a big movie buff and a gamer. I don't have a lot of spare time, so that's kind of a hard question to answer.

JA: Being a movie buff, what are your three favorite films of all time?

BM: You're asking such hard questions! These are not my top three, but I would put them in the top somewhere... I've always loved Aliens. Highlander is one of the main reasons I got into music, that movie rules. I'm a big Lord of the Rings buff, Back to the Future and The Godfather trilogies. It's impossible to say. My DVD shelf contains thousands of DVDs. I never have enough time to watch them all, but I love movies.

JA: When you're scoring for a project, do you find yourself typically emotionally connected to the story, and is difficult to write when you're not connected in that way?

BM: I have to be. Writing music is kind of like method acting, I'm not good enough to fake the emotion. My skill and craft will only take me so far. If I'm writing a sad piece of music I really have to put myself in that mindset. There are times when I'm working on a story that is so good that it genuinely makes me feel that, if it doesn't then I have to conjure up that emotion anyway. Conjuring up emotions really helps ideas to form.

JA: Finally, what are three film scores that you love?

BM: Elmer Bernstein's To Kill a Mockingbird is one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written when looking at it as a whole. It was so ahead of its time- If you listen to that now and close your eyes not knowing who wrote it, it sounds like it was written today. Another would be Conan the Barbarian by Basil Poledouris. There's an energy to his music that I drew from frequently with Battlestar Galactica. The ethnic flavor really caught my ear, it was one of the first that I saw as a kid that had ethnic sounds. It planted a seed in the back of my brain. A third would probably be Alien by Jerry Goldsmith. The way it plays on the album works as the vision he had. The end result ended up being very different. He wasn't thrilled with the way it sat in the movie, and I can't blame him because he had a very different idea, but musically it is just so gorgeous, and in terms of pop culture it's so iconic.

Some others would be Star Trek: The Motion Picture by Jerry Goldsmith, The 'Burbs by Jerry Goldsmith, Alien 3 by Elliot Goldenthal, Batman Returns by Danny Elfman, The Mission by Ennio Morricone, and also the music of Bernard Herrmann from all the Hitchcock films. I listened to these composers and these scores long before I ever listened to pop music. These are the sounds that are in my DNA.

Follow Bear on Twitter: @BearMcCreary